Feature: The Summer of XII

45 Comments

1. Mel

   Posted 2012.09.02 at 15:23 | Permalink

   Well, like some other people I got a head start on the game. I’m about 15 hours in and am currently approaching the Garif via the Ozmone Plain.

   Just something things I noticed booting up this game for the first time in a while: The super fuzzy low res visual took some getting used to and the inverted camera controls REALLY took some getting used to since the game offers no option to switch it. Maybe some people here prefer that set up, but it’s not one I’m used to anymore.

   I’m approaching this play through in a much more efficient manner than I’ve ever done before since I’ve researched exactly how the weapons work and good habits for getting money easily, and the result so far is I’m having a much easier time.

2. Deimosion

   Posted 2012.09.03 at 01:03 | Permalink

   Having only finished my first playthrough about a year ago, and with that playthrough being 100%, I’m not sure how much fun this one’s going to be for me. I burned myself out on FFXII, I think. Still, I do think this is an excellent game. I will probably skip the cutscenes whenever possible, though, since I don’t recall the game having a particularly compelling storyline and in typical FF fashion there are some fairly lengthy cutscenes.

3. Imitanis

   Posted 2012.09.03 at 08:30 | Permalink

   I’ve not played this since it was first released, so I’ve been looking forward to this. Sadly though, playing on a large flat screen T.V. means that the game looks way too fuzzy :(
   I can’t play it for as long as I would other games. A couple of hours a day though, and I should be on track.

4. Blitzmage

   Posted 2012.09.03 at 10:02 | Permalink

   I am with Imitanis on this one, I wish I had my old CRT to play this one. Alas, that TV broke many years ago. So I am about five ish hours in, and I seem to remember the FMV graphics differently in my memorie than how they really are. The FMV graphics make it look like the people of FF XII are made of clay almost, for example Vaans hair in any FMV.

5. Matt Dance

   Posted 2012.09.03 at 12:27 | Permalink

   If the dialogue came from just text boxes instead of voice acting, I’d like the cutscenes a lot more. That’s enough criticism.

   Is there a strategy for having different types of weapons, like bludgeoning types are better against skeletons or something?

6. Mel

   Posted 2012.09.03 at 13:19 | Permalink

   The weapon usage is important for what kind of character you’re building. Most weapons have some kind of specialty that they cater to or simply that they feature.

   Guns, for example, will never miss. They also ignore ALL defense. However, they’re slow and often much weaker than other weapon types. But ignoring defense and being ranged make up for that most of the time.

   Swords are pretty straight forward, they hurt based off of your strength stat, and usually are one handed so you can equip a shield for extra evade.

   Lances do the most damage, straight up, but don’t offer much for bonus damage. The strongest weapon in the game, the Zodiac Spear, is a lance.

   Samurai type swords and knives are based off of a speed stat or something similar. I’d have to look it up to be certain, but they generally favor quicker character builds.

   Staves give bonuses to magic stats.

   Hand Bombs, Axes, and I think Measures as well can do massive damage, but their chance to do so is randomized, so some times you’ll hit for much lower.

   Bows are another ranged weapon, but they can be negatively impacted by the weather. If it’s raining or snowing, you might miss a lot. I forget what stat they base their damage off of at the moment.

7. Deimosion

   Posted 2012.09.03 at 14:12 | Permalink

   Measures do very little damage and inflict buffs on-hit, so they’re mainly used to buff party members without using MP. Otherwise, Mel pretty much has it, though I’ve never heard of the bow thing before.

   Anyway, I’m planning to do a DCHLB (Dual Character, Half License Board) for this since I don’t just want to do another normal playthrough. I’m giving Vaan the bottom half of the board and Ashe the top. Not much to report so far, except to say that the Rogue Tomato and combat in general are a little more difficult without Cure.

8. Mel

   Posted 2012.09.03 at 16:27 | Permalink

   Wow, interesting playthrough choice, D.

   I’ve looked up the info in a FAQ on Gamefaqs, and here’s the general run down (credit goes to the person who wrote this: http://www.gamefaqs.com/ps2/459841-final-fantasy-xii/faqs/45662 ):

   “-Swords have decent Speed and good strength. Damage from Swords is calculated by character’s strength, swords attack rating and the enemies defense.

   -Daggers have better speed than Swords. Damage from a Dagger is calculated from a character’s Strength and Speed, and the enemies defense.

   -Axes are faster than Hammers. Damage is calculated by your character’s strength, Vitality and Weapons attack rating.

   -Maces are helpful for a supportive type character. Damage is calculated by Weapons attack power, magick power of character and the defense of the enemy.

   -Measures are basically used for a upgrading [buffing] weapon. Damage calculations by
   attack power of Measure and nothing else, it ignores defense just like Guns.

   -Katanas have one best combo rate of any type of weapon, so they pretty awesome. Damage is calculated by characters strength, magick power, attack rating and opponents defense. Damage based on Magick is helpful because even then your support characters can deal good damage.

   -Ninja Swords have BETTER combo rate than Katanas, so they pretty awesome too. Damage is calculated by character’s strength, speed, sword rating and enemy’s defense. Genji Gloves/ Cat-Ear Hood make these swords WAAAY better.

   -These weapons [Lances] have the strongest weapons in the game. Damage calculation is strength, attack rating and the enemy’s defense.

   -Poles are another weapon that have a high combo rate. Damage calculation is character’s strength, attack rating of Poles, and against enemy’s magick defense(other than the normal defense).

   -Rods can add Magick Power to your character. Damage calculation by character’s strength, attacking rating, and enemy’s defense.

   -Staves increase magick power, they power up the elemental type that the staff is. Damage calculation by character’s strength, magick power, attacking rating, and enemy’s defense.

   -Bow damage is affected by weather in the area, such as Rain in Giza Plains. Damage calculations by character’s strength and speed, arrows strength, and enemy’s defense. Bows give no Added Effects or Evasion.

   -Crossbows can miss, but not very often. Damage calculation by character’s strength, crossbows attack rating and bolt power and enemy’s defense. Crossbows give no Added Effects themselves, but Bolts can.

   -Guns are a slow weapon type, but 100% accurate. Damage calculation by attack power of gun and ammo. Note-It doesn’t matter about enemy’s defense. It pierces right through.

   -Hand-Bombs can do massive damage OR little damage. Damage calculations by character’s strength and vitality, attacking rating of hand-bomb and the enemy’s defense. Hand-Bombs don’t Evasion or Added Effects.”

9. Ethos

   Posted 2012.09.03 at 20:31 | Permalink

   I’ll obviously have much more to say than this, but goddamn YES not being able to invert the camera is annoying. I never get used to it. After 100+ hours of playing this game over my life, it never becomes instinctual. But when that’s my biggest complaint, you know you have a good game.

10. Matt Dance

    Posted 2012.09.03 at 20:36 | Permalink

    Thank you Mel, that helps a lot!

11. SiliconNooB

    Posted 2012.09.04 at 03:32 | Permalink

    @Ethan: I’m playing on an emulator, and thus have reversed the right stick inputs. From memory however, you do get used to the camera over time.

12. evilpaul

    Posted 2012.09.04 at 07:01 | Permalink

    I’m trying to think of what the other thing was, but I’ve been playing Dark Souls and something else and the damn camera controls are like the default Persona 3 ones. Which is to say WRONG. I need to replay this (I’m still not going to do those fucking Hunts…. which sounds oddly vulgar) but I still think it had one of the more coherent FF narratives of the post-FFVI FF games.

    I still remember being thrown off by being able to run while castint spells which is a way of 100% spell interruption (lag not withstanding) in FFXI.

13. Ethos

    Posted 2012.09.04 at 10:49 | Permalink

    @SN – Perhaps YOU do, but I go the wrong way first with the camera almost every time still.

    I’m also with everybody else in saying how fuzzy the game looks. Despite all my HD whoring, I usually slip right into the graphical style of old games. However, I think because it’s obvious how BEAUTIFUL FFXII would be in HD, I’m constantly reminded of how it is not. SN, are you playing the HD upscale on your emulator?

14. Mel

    Posted 2012.09.04 at 11:50 | Permalink

    I feel like I’m am getting used to the camera now, but I also feel my brain working just a little bit harder each time I need to make a left down a hallway and then must push the stick to the RIGHT…ugh. However, moving the stick down actually does moves the camera DOWN, and not the viewing angle down, so then I end up slamming the camera into Vaan’s ankles when I just want a better overhead view.

15. SiliconNooB

    Posted 2012.09.04 at 11:51 | Permalink

    Yes, 1080p. For my money it looks even prettier than the XIII games.

16. Lusipurr

    Posted 2012.09.04 at 12:16 | Permalink

    Because *I* am not a ponce:

    - The graphics looks fine to me on my 42″ HD tv. This is because I am not sitting smack up against it, but rather on the couch about ten feet away. You know, where you are supposed to be sitting.

    - The camera is wonderfully correct, and makes my heart sing. Too many children did not play fully rotatable 3D games back in the day, it seems, when the default camera options were *always* inverted. Also, this game has some of the best camera responsiveness in any game I have ever played. HINT: press the camera stick down and it will snap behind you, which may solve for some of the whinging I’ve seen here.

    - The music is better than I remember it, but the audio balance on the voice acting is worse. The voice acting itself is top-notch, but they all sound like they were recorded with the mic. pressed up against their lips. This is the fault of someone in audio processing, almost certainly.

    - I seem to recall hunts being somewhat more difficult that they are. Perhaps, having done them a few times now, I am prepared whereas before I was not.

    I am at Giruvegan curnently, about 40 hours in, including time spent on side-stuff, which includes all hunts and sidequests available at this point.

17. Mel

    Posted 2012.09.04 at 13:05 | Permalink

    The voices sounding muffled is, from what I’ve read, a product of compression so everything fit on one disc. And I’ve gotten used to the way the game looks now, but at first…yikes.

18. SiliconNooB

    Posted 2012.09.04 at 13:23 | Permalink

    There’s no two ways about it; PS2 games look ugly on LCD televisions.

    The XII camera isn’t bad due to any inherent weakness in the scheme used, but rather because it does the exact opposite of the mapping used in 99% of games which also utilise a third-person camera, making it unintuitive. It’s one of those persistent niggles of expectation, like when games reverse the functionality of ‘X’ and ‘O’ for confirm and cancel.

    I AM A DRUNKEN GIT AND I DON’T LIKE IT WHEN PEOPLE DISAGREE WITH ANYTHING I SAY EVEN WHEN IT IS SIMPLY BECAUSE I NEVER PLAYED PC 3D SHOOTERS BEFORE 2000 OR THE FACT THAT I AM SITTING WITH MY FAT AUSTRALIAN FACE PRESSED SQUARELY UP AGAINST THE MONTIOR.

    I WOULD COMPLAIN MORE BUT THERE IS FOSTER’S AND IT WON’T DRINK ITSELF.

    [edited to improve Clarity by Lusipurr]

19. Matt Dance

    Posted 2012.09.04 at 16:41 | Permalink

    Does Foster’s make the camera scheme more intuitive?

20. Mel

    Posted 2012.09.04 at 19:52 | Permalink

    For once, I’m not the target…

    I AM A SILLY DUNCE WITH PLUMS IN MY MOUTH.

    Wrong again, Mel…

21. Lusipurr

    Posted 2012.09.04 at 22:37 | Permalink

    @Matt: I am able to carry on just fine without being inebriated/Australian. :)

22. Lusipurr

    Posted 2012.09.04 at 22:38 | Permalink

    At the last boss, 50h in, having done many hunts and sidequests as well. Will just be doing the rest of the hunts and sidequests from now on out. Catch up to me! We can talk hunts!

23. Mel

    Posted 2012.09.04 at 23:19 | Permalink

    Not sure what the plums are about…

24. Blitzmage

    Posted 2012.09.04 at 23:30 | Permalink

    Well they are in your mouth so you may want to get them checked.

25. Mel

    Posted 2012.09.04 at 23:39 | Permalink

    Such an unusual accusation.

26. Lusipurr

    Posted 2012.09.05 at 00:12 | Permalink

    @Mel: You say ‘accusation’, but I only see a confession.

27. Ethos

    Posted 2012.09.05 at 00:18 | Permalink

    I agree about the music, Lusipurr. I’m definitely finding it more enjoyable although there are still times when I think “certainly the Giza Plains does not need music that makes me feel like I’m taking on all of Mordor”.
    In terms of the voice acting, I actually think it’s a stylistic choice. I noticed it from my first playthrough. It certainly sounds fuzzy, but FFX’s voiceacting was crisp as a bell (despite the content being way more intolerable), so that leads me to believe somebody thought that adding that filter to the voices would make it seem more detached, much like the general emotion of the game.

    All that being said, I’m actually enjoying the plot more this time around. It certainly doesn’t continue as strongly as it started, but things generally make sense and motivations seem pretty clear.

28. Lusipurr

    Posted 2012.09.05 at 01:07 | Permalink

    @Ethos: Well, despite what ‘Wrong-Again’ Mel claims, it is not a result of compression–and, in fact, it isn’t a filter either. In the former case, no compression causes an effect like that–compression actually causes a different effect–tinniness, as a result of the low end frequenceies being truncated, or muddiness as a result of too much high-end being cut out. Compression does not add proximity distortion, full stop.

    Proximity distortion is what you get as a result of 1) using an insufficient condenser or 2) amplifying low-definition audio. In the first case, the mic is overloaded by the incoming sound–that is, the sound levels are too high for the mic line. In the second case, there is insufficient audio fidelity recorded and, when the track is amplified, this lack of recorded fidelity is amplified as well.

    In listening to the tracks from the game across what is now my seventh playthrough, I feel even more certain that this is an example of the first case. The problem is that it is actually rather difficult to fix in processing. The audio should have been rerecorded. but it seems the audio engineers were either not listening to the direct feed, or they were operating in the assumption that the direct feed was fine. (Alternately, they could have recorded low and then amplified, as per no. 2 above.)

    As for a filter, definitely not the case. There *are* filters used: judges, for example, have one which makes them sound like they are talking in helmets. But they also suffer the same proximity distortion. This was not something deliberately added in, but rather something which was done either by accident or as a result of negligence on the part of the audio team.

    Incidentally, one of the reasons I think it is the condensers are at fault is because there are instances of both popping and maxxing out, neither of which would result from compressions or a filter, nor from post-produc. amplification.

29. Durga Syn

    Posted 2012.09.05 at 06:10 | Permalink

    I’ve been accidentally participating in this one already. I am about 30 hours in as we speak! Just happened to be playing through it already. I really do enjoy this one. Keep getting distracted by the hunts and stuff

30. Mel

    Posted 2012.09.05 at 06:25 | Permalink

    Seems you have a good sense of audio equipment. I haven’t noticed any of the popping or maxing you mentioned, but yours is the most comprehensive argument I could find on the subject about the low quality sound for the voices. And to further suggest it isn’t compression, the game comes in around 3.7 gigs which would be under the 4.7 gig capacity of a PS2 disc. (Unless the PS2 used special DVDs, or unless this game disc was double layered) I mean, I guess it could still have been compressed, given all that, but it’s looking less the case now.

    Anywho, I had taken a pause for a bit, I’m on my way to the Gran Kiltias and getting all the hunts as they become available. The only one so far to give me trouble was the Croakadile. Took some fiddling and a Belias to put it down, but I managed.

31. Ethos

    Posted 2012.09.05 at 10:07 | Permalink

    Yeah, sounds like we have the best theory on the audio.

    It’s strange, the hunts are really the only major sidequest (I’m aware it’s not the ONLY one), but the way they’re set up really makes it seem like more. In a good way, though. It’s impressive that hunts have the sort of legs they do.

    And really, Mel? This is my first time doing all the hunts as they become available, and Croakadile was one of the few that gave me no trouble whatsoever.

32. Lusipurr

    Posted 2012.09.05 at 10:36 | Permalink

    One thing I was commenting to Thea about was how much of this game is developed to be totally and completely optional.

    There are huge, vast areas–fully realised, with voice acting and cutscenes and the like–which one will *never* even know the existence of if one is only doing the storyline. In this way, it really does feel like FFXI to some degree. Zertinian Caverns? Necrohol of Nabudis? Nabreus Deadlands? Cerobi Steppe? I bet there are people who have completed this game but who have never so much as stepped foot into those places.

    The hunts and sidequests are really essential if one wants to get the whole FFXII experience.

33. Lusipurr

    Posted 2012.09.05 at 11:31 | Permalink

    @Durga: You can’t be ‘distracted’ by the hunts–they make up a substantial portion of the game’s content! Enjoy them! :)

34. evilpaul

    Posted 2012.09.05 at 14:45 | Permalink

    I hate the Hunts soooo much. I’m convinced they were implemented to sell Brady’s Guides because I have no idea how you’re supposed to find the damned monsters.

    I killed that Red Tomato Mandragora they make you do outside town by those dinosaurs. Then I tried to go find a White Mousse in the Sewer Level (this game actually has you start in a sewer killing rats) and after an hour of being harassed by bats(?) I gave up never having found the thing.

    I then continued the story. Or tried to, anyway. I was outside town in the Desert Level were I was brutally murdered by Nidhogg who was one of those dragons who had a ring on its head for some reason and a palette swap of that later unfortunate dragon with a ring on its head boss fight. And had I not lost terribly I didn’t have that Hunt flagged yet anyway.

    Un-Hunt related, are the Elementals killable? I know I finished the game underleveled last time, I zombied (not the status effect) the shit out of the elevator boss fight and not-Sephiroth/Kefka/One Winged Angel boss fight, but even by the end of the game I couldn’t kill one in that marshy area from the beginning of the game. They were still all, “THUNDAGA YOU DEI!!!!”

35. Lusipurr

    Posted 2012.09.05 at 15:35 | Permalink

    @EP: The hunt log tells you where the monsters are located, and the hiring party gives you even more information on the hunts. Moreover, the hunt targets show up as huge red dots on the map, as opposed to the normal size dots, so you can just run around (in flee mode) looking if you are not sure.

    Open your hunt log up, dude! It is all there!

    And yes, elements are killable, even fairly early in the game. It is largely a matter of protecting yourself adequately and using elemental weaknesses to your advantage.

36. Mel

    Posted 2012.09.05 at 15:41 | Permalink

    @ Ethos: Yeah, I may have been too underleveled for Croakadile. I fought him pretty much RIGHT as you are able to start that hunt. And if you’re trying to rely on picking away at his health (like I foolishly was) then you’ll meet with a very hard time, if not failure, thanks to his regen, various immunities, and his ability to double his character level AND regain all his HP when he goes critical the first time (and none of that can be silenced). However, once I leveled a bit and threw in Belias to the mix…it was like cleaning up some froggy roadkill.

37. Ethos

    Posted 2012.09.05 at 19:26 | Permalink

    THERE it is! Lusipurr said what I’ve been trying to say in two articles and a few comments. So much of the game is OPTIONAL. Those locations are a perfect example. It feels like finding a secret cave, there’s something so magical and awe-inspiring about finding a massive location that is not a part of the main quest. THAT is payoff in exploration.

38. evilpaul

    Posted 2012.09.06 at 08:50 | Permalink

    A thing I really liked about the game was the optional stuff. Near that forest area where the bunny lady lost her shit due to Mist you could find what I’m going to call Lightening Dog Monsters that I think were neon purple which gave crazy EXP. They gave like 10x the normal EXP. It was like Intangir from the original FF3/FFVII release.

39. Lusipurr

    Posted 2012.09.06 at 10:14 | Permalink

    @EP: Those are Hellhounds. There isn’t anything special about them, they just happen to be part of a higher level section of Golmore, so they are twice the level of the rest of the monsters there–around 37-40 instead of 20-22. As you may recall, you return to Golmore and pass through that section later in the game on the way to the Feywood and Giruvegan, at which point your party should be approaching level 40–hence the more difficult monsters.

    Incidentally, if all you want is a lot of exp., you could do the same thing by going further into the Estersand, or by walking into the Zertinian Caverns entrance just outside of Golmore, or any other thing that would let you visit higher level monsters, since the only reason the Hellhounds were giving you lots of XP was because of the level difference.

    Did you not use Libra when playing? It allows you to see all the hidden traps, but also displays enemy levels, statuses, and weaknesses.

40. Lusipurr

    Posted 2012.09.06 at 10:15 | Permalink

    @Ethos: Cue Riddles declaring there is no exploration in Final Fantasy XII.

41. Ethos

    Posted 2012.09.06 at 17:10 | Permalink

    Okay, I just got to the Drace execution scene and I have to say that I am flat out digging the story this time through. It’s not presented in the same in-your-face way that most FFs are, but once you expect the at-a-distance style of story-telling, it’s really quite effective. Far more so than I initially experienced. Ashe is such a complex and flawed character. She’s not very interesting in the way she talks, but her choices and actions show that she’s deeper than her formal royal speech might make her appear.

    @Lusipurr – Bah-ha, yup. “Nono, you still go on the path you’re supposed to go on. I mean, sometimes you can go other places, gather new information, and see other things if you go off the beaten path, but it’s not exploration”
    “THAT’S THE DEFINITION, OLIVER”

42. Lusipurr

    Posted 2012.09.06 at 21:39 | Permalink

    @Ethos: Re. the storyline, I, too, have been enjoying it very much this time around. Perhaps it is because I know it already, so I am paying attention to certain things more than I was the first time–and I am not skipping through the cutscenes and dialogue, but rather reading them with an eye towards understanding Ivalice, instead of just getting the key storyline hooks. I had a great time with this playthrough (sadly, already over for me–the whole game, inside of three days or so).

    Also, it occurs to me (and this will be a topic on TSM) that if Square wants to save the FF series, they need to start making games where that majestic Fnal Fantasy Theme would not seem out of place. Hearing it when I go to load a file, I am constantly reminded of this. It is a wonderful theme–not necessarily for its musical construction, but rather because it somehow captures the spirit of Final Fantasy in a way that no literary description possibly could. And, I think that if SE really want to make Final Fantasy games, they need to set up their prospective world, play the theme whilst looking it over, and ask themselves, “Does this fit, or is it an imposition?”

43. Mel

    Posted 2012.09.06 at 22:54 | Permalink

    So, Lusi, do you think Final Fantasy is something that should be kept closer to its High Fantasy roots or not necessarily? Because when I hear that theme I get more of an old world vibe than anything else. Somtheing about all of the Final Fantasy brand to me just seems “old” and “vintage”, right down the the way they stylize the name Final Fantasy in a bold face and a simple underscore. The world of XII borrowed heavily from steampunk aspects, from what I can tell, so even though it does feature a very industrial civilization the game still maintains an older feel (right down to the knight armor the Judges wear and of course the style of the dialogue and written exposition).

    Personally, I didn’t dig the more futuristic aspects of XIII but that may have been because I was lukewarm to the whole game.

44. Deimosion

    Posted 2012.09.06 at 23:53 | Permalink

    I got up to the point on the Leviathan where Ashe joins permanently, so now the DCHLB can truly begin. I’m still trying to decide which character to control most of the time. On the one hand, controlling Ashe will let me handle magic casting, but then again a lot of the magic casting can be automated using Gambits (which Ashe, unlike Vaan, will actually have slots for). I’ll probably control Ashe for most fights just because manual control of the mage will be good and Vaan’s actions can very easily be automated despite his only having two Gambit slots.

    Having two radically different characters should prove interesting, if nothing else.

45. SiliconNooB

    Posted 2012.09.07 at 05:16 | Permalink

    @Ethan: That isn’t exploration, the game is just tangentially linear! ^_^

    @Mel: In happier times I have not required the FF series to be set in ye olden days, yet the storytelling is so poor at the moment that I feel that they should be forced to use a more basic setting just to prevent the team from burying the game under great heaps of vapid jargon (much as one would fit a connical hat upon their cat to prevent it from picking at stitches, for SE finds it too easy to indulge their worst tendencies).