Comments on: Editorial: Innumerable http://lusipurr.com/2015/03/12/editorial-innumerable/ Sun, 06 Mar 2016 11:48:35 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=4.4.2 By: Lusipurr http://lusipurr.com/2015/03/12/editorial-innumerable/#comment-90128 Sun, 15 Mar 2015 19:05:37 +0000 http://lusipurr.com/?p=12594#comment-90128 List of my favourite staff members named Java:

1.

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By: Java http://lusipurr.com/2015/03/12/editorial-innumerable/#comment-90127 Sun, 15 Mar 2015 16:11:02 +0000 http://lusipurr.com/?p=12594#comment-90127 I was being serious! Lists themselves, meh. It’s the talk they generate that I look toward. There is always quibbles and comments about the faults or virtues of a given list, and I feel it colors a larger picture most of the time. I’ve actually discovered some of my favorite authors because of the dissenting comments on lists.

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By: Mel http://lusipurr.com/2015/03/12/editorial-innumerable/#comment-90102 Fri, 13 Mar 2015 16:25:19 +0000 http://lusipurr.com/?p=12594#comment-90102 Readers, don’t mind Java. He got his hands trampled by some elephants or something, and he meant to type “Mel has a great and unassailable point!”

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By: Lusipurr http://lusipurr.com/2015/03/12/editorial-innumerable/#comment-90096 Fri, 13 Mar 2015 05:40:17 +0000 http://lusipurr.com/?p=12594#comment-90096 Here’s my list of main series Final Fantasy games in order. Non-MMOs are based on their original release; MMOs are based on their latest version.

1. Final Fantasy VII
2. Final Fantasy VI
3. Final Fantasy IX
4. Final Fantasy IV
5. Final Fantasy XII
6. Final Fantasy XIV
7. Final Fantasy XIII
8. Final Fantasy V
9. Final Fantasy I
10. Final Fantasy III
11. Final Fantasy XI
12. Final Fantasy VIII
13. Final Fantasy X
14. Final Fantasy II

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By: Lusipurr http://lusipurr.com/2015/03/12/editorial-innumerable/#comment-90094 Thu, 12 Mar 2015 20:17:22 +0000 http://lusipurr.com/?p=12594#comment-90094 @Mel: “I’m advocating not ranking them at all because, like with review scores, I find doing so to be unnecessarily reductive.”

Then you have the problem that inclusion implies equality, which will demonstrably not be the case in any list of a large-ish size. A small list, perhaps–ten games, maybe even fifteen, you could argue are similar in quality so as to be indistinguishable. But for a very large list? Some of them are clearly going to be better than others, and hence gradiation (or separate lists, or non-listing of the ‘worse’ games) is going to be necessary.

Ultimately I don’t see much purpose for a list of this sort except as a buying guide for genres/systems/etc. Otherwise it’s like ranking the Final Fantasy games–what does that serve, except to demonstrate what the ranking creator likes and dislikes? And surely there are better ways of conveying that information than with a list of games which one must interpret in order to get to the likes and dislikes of the list creator.

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By: Lusipurr http://lusipurr.com/2015/03/12/editorial-innumerable/#comment-90093 Thu, 12 Mar 2015 20:13:26 +0000 http://lusipurr.com/?p=12594#comment-90093 @Mel: YOU HEAR THAT? WE’RE OPINIONATED PEOPLE WHO TAKE ISSUE WITH LISTS!

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By: Java http://lusipurr.com/2015/03/12/editorial-innumerable/#comment-90092 Thu, 12 Mar 2015 19:50:19 +0000 http://lusipurr.com/?p=12594#comment-90092 The only thing I find interesting about lists are the opinionated people that take issue with them.

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By: Mel http://lusipurr.com/2015/03/12/editorial-innumerable/#comment-90089 Thu, 12 Mar 2015 18:44:23 +0000 http://lusipurr.com/?p=12594#comment-90089 I think the difference we have is in the purpose of this list or group of games. Perhaps they’re used as buying guides where time and money need to be considered for picking the most “essential” or indicative of a certain genre, but I don’t know that they should be. (Literally, I’m not saying “don’t know” as a cute way of saying “they’re not”).

It may be that the concept I propose has its place somewhere and not as a replacement of these lists. However, I think if a game achieves excellence (vague term, I realize, and would require justification) it shouldn’t necessarily be cut out because the list has to be a finite size because of its use as a buyer’s guide. It’s not that we’re fitting these apples into a pie, there is no pie and we’re appraising more than just apples (i.e., more than just one kind of game). If we were ranking all the RPGs or shooters in one list, that might sit better with me. But we’re not. I don’t think they should be appraised with the ulterior motive of making an affordable short-list for someone’s Christmas shopping, and if that is no longer the case then I don’t know why we would need rankings or a limited number of honorees.

Also,

Giving someone a one-hundred game list may err on the side of inclusivity, but it is manifestly impractical. And, with so many degrees of difference, what’s the meaningful separation between individual objects: e.g. why is X ranked 87 and Y ranked 86? What’s the manifest difference between these two things?”

I take your other points, but this one doesn’t apply. I’m advocating not ranking them at all because, like with review scores, I find doing so to be unnecessarily reductive.

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By: Lusipurr http://lusipurr.com/2015/03/12/editorial-innumerable/#comment-90088 Thu, 12 Mar 2015 18:07:36 +0000 http://lusipurr.com/?p=12594#comment-90088 “Can you identify any problems in the idea of a limitless unranked list of best games?”

Well, yes. The point of a list is to select the very best individuals from a larger group, and that means there has to be a finite (and usually small) number of ‘very best’ titles so selected. The larger the number of titles, the more diminished the accolade being granted.

If we have one hundred apples (games), and you ask me to select only the very best for a pie (time/money), and I come back with ninety-five apples and say, “these are the best,” you would be quite right to tell me:
1) My standards of judgement need to be more critical; and,
2) We can’t use all ninety-five apples in the pie.

Lists of this sort are generally created as a short guide to tell people what the handful of ‘most essential’ titles are, whether that is for a genre, system, etc. Giving someone a one-hundred game list may err on the side of inclusivity, but it is manifestly impractical. And, with so many degrees of difference, what’s the meaningful separation between individual objects: e.g. why is X ranked 87 and Y ranked 86? What’s the manifest difference between these two things?

Listicles are stupid as news items, absolutely. But that doesn’t mean that ranked lists are themselves unprofitable or useless. They are not news, they are not an acceptable substitute for news, and they are largely click-bait when presented as if they were. But, as a set of general consumer guidelines they have more than a little use.

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